Official Luthiers Forum!

Todd Stock wrote:
"Cotton/poly tape in hide,..."

That's my choice too. Testing that I did, comparing cotton/poly tapes with nylon, and Titebond vs HHG, showed the c-p/hide combination to be the strongest. It's also easier to use than Titebond. Any tape approximately doubles the force it takes to break a side at that point. One ssue with tapes is that the glue can break down over time with exposure to air. I shellac them to reduce that problem: we'll know in 75 years or so if it works...

Alan and Todd: What do you guys use for the cloth tape? So you think the cloth tape is just as effective as a wood strip? If using the wood strip and tucking it into the lining, do the ends need to be beveled...or is any stress cancelled out in the tucked area? Thanks...installing linings right now, never put on any side strips before. I think I will now.

Nothing at all for me.
L.

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

Having seen how effective tapes are at stopping side cracks, I don't trust 'nothing' any more.

I use cotton/polyester bias selvege tapes that I get at the fabric store. The material is cut in strips on the diagonal, folded under at the edges, and folded down the middle. It's used on the edges of pieces of cloth such as t-shirt material that tend to bunch up or unravel, and the bias weave allows it to go around curves without wrinkling. I get the 'narrow' size, and flatten it out by dampening it and pulling it across my bending iron. This leaves you with a strip about 1/2" wide. The stuff comes in lots of colors: I use 'tan' on things like mahogany and cherry, 'brown' for most darker woods, black on occasion, and white on maple. If you like there's blue, pink and orange...

I mark the positions for the tapes, about every 3"-4" along the sides. Using hot hide glue, I put down a line of glue across the side with a brush, lay in a strip of tape that's been cut to length, and brush some more glue over it, making sure to get the edges. I pick up the excess glue with a paper towel. Once the glue has dried I'll glue on the liners. I then sand lightly with 320 or so paper, apply a few coats of shellac out to the liners. I want to get enough shellac on them to give a glossy look, which, I hope, indicates a good enough film to preserve the glue. It's not uncommon to see tapes or paper liners in very old instruments that are flapping loose due to glue breakdown, so I consider the shellac important.

The bias tape strips I use are 3/4" wide. To start I put a piece of 3/4" masking tape at each location where I want a bias tape. Then go back and put more strips of masking tape on either side of the first one. I leave about 1/8" between the tapes. I remove the center one , put the HHG soaked bias tape down then squeegee across to get the glue worked in real good. As soon as the glue gels I pull the tape on either side. Keeps it nice and neat. Later I put on a coat or two of shellac. Harder to describe than to do it.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Todd, Steve - do you have a picture you can share of your cloth tape side reinforcement?

I don't have a real good one but this will give you the idea. Funny I said earlier I used wood reinforcements on my challenge dred but that's this one - obviously tape. I did use wood on an OM that I should have done in a few months.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Thanks for the pic Steve, and the link Todd.
Very interesting reading, must go back to Mr. Carruth's tests as well.
I have been using wood strips all the way through and butt the lining into them...
One final question, when installing your linings, do you carve or sand the tape so it butts into the lining, or do you notch the lining?

I sand the tapes as Al described then just clamp the linings over the top of them.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Hesh did a nice tutorial here: Just click on "Luthier info" and go to installing side tapes...

http://www.lenaweelutherie.com/

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Guitar Building = Continuous Improvement Process

Todd Stock wrote:
" ....there is definitely a strength case to be made for hide versus plastic glues,"

...besides, hide's easier. With Titebond you have to dampen the tape, work in some glue with your fingers, stick it down, work in some more glue to be sure, clean it up, get the stickum off your fingers, and start the next one. With HHG the only things that get glue on them are the bush and the paper towel you use to blot the excess.

So does everyone just glue the linings directly over top of the tape? Won't that cause a bad glue joint due to the gaps that would be introduced between the tape and the lining? I assume this is ok though because that appears how it was done on my '32 Martin 0-18 and it's held up fine and has monster tone. I just don't like the thought of a sloppy glue joint.

Thanks for asking that question Gil - having not seen these I was wondering the same thing.
The tape must end up really thin to be able to just lightly sand and install linings right over top with no gaps.
I am definitely going to give this a go on my next build.

Here's a closeup - the tape goes full width on the sides and you can see it a bit between the side and the lining. It's not the most in focus shot but I think you can get the idea.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Thanks for picture Steve and the details Todd!
I now definitely have enough to go on to try this - hopefully others do too who are not familiar with the side tape process.
Sorry to hijack your thread George - I believe this was all in context.

Rob

Those of you using the tapes, is this the right stuff?... http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001730M2K

No worries, Rob. I've been following this with interest and have it bookmarked.

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George :-)

Thanks Todd!